Techniques in Home Winemaking is a resource for home winemakers looking for information or help on making great wines, including troubleshooting winemaking problems, and to share that knowledge with fellow winemakers. This resource is based and builds on my book by the same title and my newly released book titled Modern Home Winemaking, which has been updated to reflect the newest techniques and products for making outstanding wines.
Much of my experience is derived from extensive literature search as well as from my experience both as a home and a commercial winemaker.
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Morning.
Do you have a trick for siphoning/removng juice from the red Must to test for Brix in the Hydrometer (to avoid the solids)?
Thanks
Seth
Daniel-
I posted a comment this morning, but it doesn’t look like it took, so I apologize if this is a dup.
Morning.
Do you have a trick to siphon or grab juice from the red must for your hydrometer to avoid the solids? I have tried a bunch of things…
And my centrifuge is missing along with my spectrophotometer, so that’s not the answer for me 🙂
Thanks, as always.
Seth
LOL. Ok Seth, let’s forget about the spinner and spectro. And yes your message did post ok the first.
It’s easy to retrieve a sample from red must. I use two kitchen tools: a sieve and a baster. Sanitize both. Do a punch-down and mix thoroughly. With the sieve, push down on the solids so that juice flows into the sieve. You may have to giggle it if it gets clogged. Then pull a sample with a baster.
Simple!
Daniel
Seth
I take a 500 ml graduated cylinder with a small sink strainer and submerge it in the must, holding the strainer on the top. The juice flows thru the strainer which traps the solids. I then pull it out. Make sure you shake it vigorously to bubble off any CO2 and then drop your hydrometer in it. If you don’t shake off the CO2 your hydrometer will float high and give you a false reading.
Stew
Hello Daniel,
I hope all is well with you.
I wanted to get your thoughts on a doubt I always have when using additives (tannins, nutirents, noblesse, optired, etc)
Often articles or the product’s instructions tell you how many grams per gallon of must, or juice… or wine even… I am always skeptical as to whether I should be considering the total volume (juice + skins) in the fermenter or approximate the volume of juice alone (the end result finished wine).
Tartaric Acid, and Sugar, sure… use the finished wine volume. But what about yeast, and/or other additives that are working on the grape skins… total volume, or just liquid volume
Thanks for you help in clarifying,
David
Hi David,
Good question, simple answer.
Yeasts, enzymes, etc. have to deal with substances still trapped within the grape skins, and so, you should always use total must (juice + solids) for calculating you additions, except for sugar and acidity as you said.
Daniel
Thanks for your response Daniel, very simple!
I am looking into fermenters right now and, in the past, I had chosen too small.
My question is, is there a point where too big a fermenter will create problems?
Is fermenting 3 cases of red grapes in a 20-gallon fermenter going to create issues with air if it sits for a day or so after going dry?
Choosing a larger fermenter gives me more flexibility for the future.
Thanks again,
David
David,
It’s always best to choose a fermenter that optimizes the surface-to-volume ratio for best extraction and fermentation dynamic. There are however no issues if you use a karger-than-needed fermenter if you properly manage your wine during and fermentation. That means that you need to protect the wine with CO2 after it reaches dryness. The wine still releases CO2 but it will dissipate as you continue punch-downs. So you’ll need to inject CO2 over the wine.
Cheers,
Daniel
Great, the Rubbermaid BRUTE 20-gallon totes seem perfect.
Thank you as always
Perfect! Make sure they are food-grade plastic.
Hi Daniel,
Do you recommend cold soaking Chard, Riesling, Pinot Gris and Sauv. Blanc on the skins after crushing for 12 hrs to obtain the fruit flavors from the grapes? I would first apply pot. met bisulfite at 50ppm and add lallzyme cuvee Blanc and option white. Then press with a bladder press after 12 hrs. Then warm the must and apply yeast plus go ferm protect. Is 49F too cold for fermentation of these white grapes ? Also will add Fermaid K at first sign of fermentation and again after 8 to 10 Brix has been consumed. At this cool temp will fermentation to dryness take 14 days? I will stir the less up 3 times a day. Is it necessary to blanket the must with CO2 after each stirring?
Thanks again for your knowledge and comments. Mike
easiest way to inject CO2 is throw dry ice on the top and the CO2 will cover the wine.
Stew
Hi Mike,
I’m not sure the Riesling or PG would benefit; you can certainly experiment with the Chard.
49F is ok, it should not be a problem, but fermentation can take weeks to reach dryness. No need for CO2 but I would leave very little headspace knowing that fermentation will not be vigorous.
Good luck.
Daniel
Thank you Daniel for your reply;
I now have 13 gallons of Chard, 3 gal. of pinot gris, 14 gal of Riesling, 5 gal. of Sauv. Blanc. and 3 gal. of pressed riesling; all from my small vineyard. I have a lot of carboys and its a lot of work with a full time job to stir 3 times a day, plus racking later, check free SO2, ph. etc. later on. Would you ferment them altogether and make a white wine or combine some to make 2 separate carboys ? Your advice would greatly be appreciated,
Thanks Mike
It is indeed a lot of work to have different wines going on at the same. I always recommend to keep the lots separate and then blend them, if you want, come bottling. You can reduce the stirring to once a day, no need for 3 times. And measure pH, TA at the end of the AF. That will be more manageable.
Cheers,
Daniel
Hello Daniel,
I have my red wines fermenting for 1-2 days, depending on the variety.
I generally like to do a co-inoculation for the malo-lactic as it is during the primary fermentation that the varietals are in one single container.
I have had good results in the past.
I just wanted to get your input on the timing of inoculating with the MLB. If i do it on day 3 or 4… when there is more alcohol (1/3 Brix depletion)… will I run into problems? It seems that for co-inoculation, the early the better (waiting at least 24 hours after AF inoculation)
I am using vp41 bacteria
Thank you
Hi David,
You can inoculate for MLF at 1/3 Brix depletion or a bit earlier to try and get the MLF as much done as possible when you come to press. FYI, I had always done MLF post AF and then I started having problems completing the MLF when I started using VP41. I now either coinoculate if I use VP41 or inoculate post MLF with my now-preferred Laffort B7 (LF16) Direct Inoculate.
Cheers,
Daniel
Thanks a lot for your response.
If splitting the bacteria among multiple fermentations, do you rehydrate in one container and split the mixture among each fermentation, or weigh out and separate the bacteria first, making a rehydrated MLB solution separately for each fermenting wine?
Sorry for my questions after questions. I really appreciate your help.
David
I rehydrate in one container and then split for each container. It’s easier and more consistent.
Thank you!
good afternoon Daniel,
I am cold soaking pin. noir for a week and at the beginning added 50ppm KMS. I stir 3 times a day. Should I blanket the top of the bin with CO2 and do I need to check the free SO2 before adding the yeast and apply more if needed to start with 50ppm?
Thanks Mike
During cold soak, yes, you have to blanket with CO2. You don’t need to check the SO2; you will be ok, but it’s always best to measure it (as a general rule) so that you have actual data if/when you run into problems and you need to find the root cause. You don’t need to add more SO2 when you inoculate.
Cheers,
Daniel
Hello Daniel,
I have found myself in a predicament, I went on travel for work and long story short instead of booster blanc being added to my Sauvignon Blanc toward the end of fermentation, a significant amount of KMETA (actual amount is unknown) was added to my nominal 130 lit batch. The one positive point being that it was pretty much finished fermenting so the SG is 0.997. I just measured the free SO2 level using Vinmetrica SC-300 and it is 248 mg/L. The other numbers being Ph: 3.44, TA: 6.8, Temp: 60 deg F, Alc %:14.8 (assumed conversion factor of 0.58 for Alchemy I yeast). Using your calculator online (molecular SO2 0.8, % adjustment 10) I am obviously way over the recommended 33 mg/L. There is a slight reduced nose to the wine, surprisingly it it is not much worse. Is there anything I can do to save the wine? I assume it is safe to drink just flawed in its current state and potential negative sulfite effects. I thought about a treatment or two of Reduless followed by Noblesse, but not sure if that will work since problem is not with HS2. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
PS we refer back to your book each year, great resource!!!
Thanks
Joe
Hi Joe,
Well, I must say, “Confirm your additives not twice but thrice.”
Before trying to add anything else, try splashing racking, vigorously, and then re-measure your FSO2. Repeat a couple of more times based on the FSO2 drop that you have witnessed, and re-measure the FSO2. It should come down quite a bit. You may need to give a rest for a day after a couple of rackings The idea is to let the oxygen consume the FSO2.
Keep me posted on progress.
Good luck.
Daniel
Thanks for quick reply, just splash racked it really good 4 times, much more than I like to do with white. The nose cleaned up, but not the numbers. There is still a lot of fine lees in suspension, I am hoping the free sulfur binds to it and gets racked away, before it binds to the sugar and alcohols and becomes permanent in the wine as total sulfur. Ugh 🙁
Thanks
Joe
I did say wait a day before re-measuring the FSO2. You have to give the oxygen time to react with the SO2. There is no binding with the lees, neither with alcohols. Sugars are very, very weak binders. The next solution would be to get more aggressive and use hydrogen peroxide. I can guide you with that.
Daniel,
I let the Sav Blanc sit for two days and just remeasured, splash racked 4 times on Saturday. The FSO2 came down ever so slightly to 232 mg/l from the original 248 mg/l. I also tested the total sulfur and it is at 300 mg/l. Guessing the silver lining is that I am below the legal limit of 350 mg/l for total sulfur. Guessing I could plash rack a few more times, does the O2 bind with the FSO2 before oxidizing the alcohol? Also curious, is this something that I let sit and slowly come down over time and do not add any more KMETA or will it add off flavors to the wine?
Thanks
Joe
Joe,
Something is strange; either you are not introducing that much oxygen while splash racking or your SO2 measurements are off. It may need time to allow oxygen to be reduced into its radicals, which are the substances that actually react with bisulfite (oxygen does not react directly with SO2). It’s not a binding reaction; oxygen radicals convert bisufite into sulfate, essentially sulfuric acid. With that much FSO2, you need not worry about alcohol oxidizing.
So, yes, at this point, just let it sit; the FSO2 will come down slowly. Don’t add any more KMS, please.
As I had mentioned, there is always the solution of adding hydrogen peroxide to deal effectively with excess SO2. Folks are against adding hydrogen peroxide; I understand the reluctance. The fact of the matter is that hydrogen peroxide is the oxygen radical produced when oxygen is reduced.
Daniel
Daniel,
Thanks, I must admit I am new to using the SC-300, but pretty comfortable around chemistry. I just tested my CS in an oak barrel and got 24 FSO2 and 64 total SO2, will bump it up to 46 once I get some more Kmeta this weekend, and yes going to lock that away in safe place so same mistake does not happen again 🙂
One thing that could be throwing my numbers off is maybe I need to adjust the SC-300 procedure for acid and reactant solution (2 ml each) additions is standard procedure but maybe low for the levels I am trying to measure.
Is there anything I need to do in the future or look out for as the sulfate concentration rises.
I did try a little experiment with H2O2 yesterday adding a few drops of 3% H2O2 to a small class, result was interesting in that it turned it a peachy color and had strong grapefruit juice like flavor. Also smelled oxidized but could just be from letting it sit out for awhile.
Thanks again
Joe
Ok. Sounds like your SO2 measurements are valid. No special procedure for high SO2. Going forward, simply measure your SO2 levels every three months and make adjustments bssed on pH. And triple-check your numbers and additives. A few drops of H2O2 in a glass is a lot; H2O2 must be measured carefully and accurately. Done carefully, it should only oxidize HSO3- to SO4,2-. H2O2 is a powerful oxidizer; the slightest excess can oxidize wine.
Hello! I’m new to the world of home wine making and have a “noob” question … What is the best ambient air temp to optimally ferment red Bordeaux varietals (small batch 5-6 gallons). I know the temp ranges I should target for the must. But cannot find a lot of info about managing surrounding environment temperatures. I am assuming (often a bad thing to do) that air temperature should be maintained a few degrees lower than target fermentation temp due to the heat generated by the yeast action. Apologies for such a rookie question 🙂 Learning as much as I can before diving in to my first production!!!!
Cheers!
Kevin
Hello Kevin,
No apologies necessary; those are fair questions.
Reds are allowed to start fermenting at room temperature, i.e. high 60s. When fermentation is at the most active point, the temperature will be mid to high 80s. The hot temperature is necessary to extract color as much as possible and to ensure a relatively quick fermentation.
Whites are much more delicate and should be fermented much cooler, around 50F, at times lower.
Good luck.
Daniel
Hello Daniel, I understand the importance of punching down the cap and stirring the lees several times a day for red wines. For whites is stirring the lees daily helpful, or is it better to disturb as little as possible to limit oxygenation?
Hi Pete,
For whites, I would only recommend stirring the lees for making richer, fuller bodied wines, such as oak-fermented/aged Chardonnay. You don’t want to otherwise detract from the fresh, fruity and delicate aromas in whites.
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
My whites (Chard, Riesling, Sauv.Blaanc and pin. gris) are doing well at 50F after 12 days and I am stirring 3 times a day. I do want the fruity flavor of the grapes so should I be stirring up the lees 3 X a day ? After the wine is completely dry and racked off the gross less should I continue stirring up the minor lees?
Thanks Mike
Hi Mike,
You should forego the stirring of the lees, certainly not that aggressively, if you want fruity-style whites.
Cheers,
Daniel
Hello Daniel.
I am at about 10 days since the crush, my red wine is just about dry, but I am getting a little bit more of a sharp/rough taste to the wine, in comparision to past years. This year, I did use a small amout of Lallzyme. Could that be the cause of the sense of over-extraction? Or maybe underripe seeds…
Nothing is lost, I know It will temper and smooth out but I wanted your opinion as perhaps I’d better skip Lallzyme next year. No rush, thanks.
Varietals are:
OVZ
Tempranillo
Malbec
Petite Syrah
Syrah
Grenache
Petit Verdot
David,
Macerating enzymes are always recommended for reds to extract maximum polyphenols, especially anthocyanins. Use in conjunction with inactivated yeast derivative nutrients, such as Opti-Red, pectinases if not already part of the macerating enzymes formulation, and tannins to stabilize color. Tannins will obviously seem sharp at first, it’s natural, but they will mellow out as they polymerize during aging.
If you are so inclined and equipped, you can try what is called the rack-and-return method (better known by its French name, délestage; you can Google it) which involves removing as much of the seeds as possible during fermentation.
I’m fermenting a Riesling and would like it to be semi-sweet (more German-style). What is the ideal final Brix or SG to achieve this?
Semi-sweet can be up to 45 g/L; that’s quite sweet, so be sure you know end up with something you like. You need to stop fermentation at about 4.5 Brix (SG 1.018) to get close 45 g/L residual sugar. I suggest you go to 3.0 Brix, taste the wine and assess the sweetness, and then add sugar to the finished to adjust to your liking.
Thank you. Are you suggesting going to 3 Brix in order to increase alcohol content, with the option of adding sugar after AF to increase sweetness? Also, would I add sugar and SO2 at the same time (to sweeten and stop AF)?
Follow-up question: how do I determine how much SO2 to add to stop alcoholic fermentation? (And are there other alternatives?)
I’m suggesting you go to 3 Brix as you can always adjust sweetness up; it will be more difficult to adjust sweetness down (you can only change the perception of sweetness by increasing the acidity).
What I do to stop fermentation to keep some residual sugar is: 1. Stun the yeast with a high dose (75-100 ppm) of SO2, 2. immediately chill the wine for a couple of days, 3. and filter to 0.45 micron nominal. Then when ready to bottle, I add the amount of sugar I decided to have according to taste, adjust SO2, and sterile filter (or add sorbate).
Hi, I’m struggling with a home made wine. This year I made two varieties of grape (home grown fruit), an apple and a plum wine totalling 10 Demi-johns. I’ve reached a healthy 12% and 14% across the board with one exception.
Using my refractometer I got a reading of 42%. Impossible of course. I recalibrated, tested other wines and got the same result. I tested some bought spirits and as advertised these are 40%.
I’ve used a basic wine yeast in a glass Demi-John and it’s STILL fermenting! Apart fro
Stopping before I make pure ethanol – How has this happened? Can I test it another way to check the alcohol content? It tastes amazing and yes, alcoholic but it simply cannot be that strength. Any suggestions welcome.
Hi Phil,
A refractometer is used to measure the amount of sugar in an aqueous solution, such as juice for making wine. It cannot be used to measure an alcoholic solution, such as wine, once there is any amount of alcohol. You can measure alcohol by distillation or what is called ebulliometry.
I’m not following what you are saying about stopping fermentation and pure ethanol. You cannot make pure ethanol by fermentation.
Hope this helps.
Daniel
Daniel-
Hope all is well. 2018 crush and ferment were fun, and very productive.
My 2017 Cab/Merlot is still bulk aging (30 gal). I am very happy with it, except the color is a bit light. I am guessing that I put oak chips in too early in the fermentation process.
Your book speaks about grape skin powder, but all I have found is:
http://www.piwine.com/grape-skin-extract-1-oz.html
Recommendations?
Thanks, as always, and enjoy the weekend.
Seth
Seth,
You likely did not extract as much anthocyanins as you could have. Try Laffort’s Erelte, an enocyanin powder extract.
http://www.cellartek.com/products/erelte-powder/
Good luck.
Daniel
Thanks. I would day it’s more of a pinot color. Not bad, just not great. You had advised waiting before putting in the chips during AF, which I did this year. Is it possible that the early addition of the chips in 2017 prevented the absorption?
Not sure I need 5 kilos and they don’t have nfo on the site or E-commerce setup. Have emailed them.
Are there alternative products?
Seth
No, I know many winemakers that add oak chips or powder right at crush.
I don’t know of an alternative product.
Hi Daniel,
The cap has fallen on my red wine to which I added MLBacteria at about 2 to 3 Brix. Temp. is 65F. After pressing should I rack the gross lees off the wine after 24 hrs ? Also Do you suggest adding oak cubes to Pinot Noir and Cab. Sauv. after pressing and caring it through after racking when MLF is complete?
My white wine measures 0 on my hydrometer, however, it taste spritzy. Iam stirring up the less twice a day and topping with CO2. Should I rack it off the less and add KMS according to the ph now or give it a few more days in the cooler at 50F?
I am going to start making wine in a friends brewery so I can receive a winery license and then sell my wines here in Alaska. Do you think it is ok to ferment wine in the brewery where beer is being made. I think they use some Brett. in their brewery also. I will not be using wine barrels, only cubes or chips.
Thanks very much , Mike
Hi Mike,
Yes, for the red, rack off the gross lees after 24 hours. Go gentle on the racking as ML bacteria are sensitive to oxygen. Your MLF is likely not done (did you test it?). Oak chips/powder/whatever should have been added when you reached max color extraction to lock in the color. It’s still useful at this point but it will be mostly about imparting oak aromas and flavors.
For the white, yes, there will be quite a bit of CO2 at this point. It will dissipate over time with processing. Let it ferment to complete dryness, i.e. around -1.5 Brix. You should still have enough CO2 from fermentation for protection, so no need to inject more. Stir once a day to ensure fermentation completes. When finished, rack the wine off the gross lees, sulfite, and then start the lees stirring regimen if you wish.
It’s not a good idea to share the space space for beer and winemaking; there are some cross-contamination issues, Brett, as you point out, being one of them. Keep ’em separate.
Good luck.
Daniel
Good Morning Daniel,
I am about half way through fermentation of red wines and want to know if I should add the Malo lactic bacteria before the wine goes dry and before I press?
Thanks Mike
Hi Mike,
Though the science is not yet precise on the pros/cons of the timing of MLF, there are many opinions on the benefits of co-inoculation (i.e. inoculating for MLF at the same time or soon after the start of the AF), vs co-inoculating later during the AF, vs inoculating after the completion of the AF. There is no right or wrong answer here. Co-inoculating with the AF or soon after it starts does have the benefit of a shorter timeframe to MLF completion, which means you can sulfite much sooner thereby reducing any potential risk of microbial deviations.
Daniel
Morning Daniel- was just hoping to clarify some of your previous recommendations. You had indicated to me that I may have added my chips too early in a previos fermentation, and as you said a few posts ago “Oak chips/powder/whatever should have been added when you reached max color extraction to lock in the color. ”
Yet when I spoke of my 2017 Cab/Merlot being a little thin on color, you indicated that many of your friends add chips or powder at the start of fermentation, as I did.
I may have mis-interpreted this, but I thought there might be a negative effect in adding the oak too early. If not color, then what would that negative be?
Thanks
Seth
There are different schools of thoughts on this subject, and I don’t recall seeing a study looking at adding tannins at crush vs later during fermentation. I’m going by my knowledge of anthocyanin-tannin chemistry. The whole discussion is about anthocyanin-tannin polymerization towards srabiluzing color, i.e. anthocyanin molecules, which are very unstable.
Some prefer to add tannins via an oak addition right at crush to start polymerization with anthocyanins as those are being extracted. That makes sense since there are very, very little tannins at that point. I prefer to wait till I have achieved maximum anthocyanin extraction, some 3-5 days into fermentation, before the tannin addition to first allow endogenous tannins to polymerize with anthocyanins. I feel there is a better anthocyanin-tannin balance at that point. I have never done a side-by-side study, so this more art than science.
Hi Daniel,
I have some wine sticks and some oak chips. Do they need to be soaked in something before adding to my wine? Thanks Mike
Hi Mike,
Assuming that these are right out of the package that you just bought, no, there is no need to soak. If the sticks or chips have been stored or have been exposed to the elements, a quick sanitization with SO2 followed by a water rinse would be recommended.
Daniel
Thanks, as always, appreciate your very informed insights.
I wish I knew for sure, but it appears that I “lost” color in the bulk aging process.
Have a great week.
Seth
There will be some color loss as the wine clarifies itself. There can be considerable loss if color was not adequately stabilized. You would have to look at your extraction and stabilization processes.
Daniel-
Cold Stabilization:
Assuming no constraints with regard to space or otherwise, if I can cold stabilize at will, from a timing perspective, when do you recommend this, white, red and rose?
I am still debating over cold stabilizing my reds. I generally don’t like to lose acidity in my reds. What is your practice?
Thanks
Seth
You cold stabilize as the last step, i.e. there should be no more changes to wine chemistry, including adding processing aids or additives. Then you filter and bottle.
I age my reds for years at cellar temperature, i.e. 13°C/55°F, so they naturally stabilize to that temperature. That’s good for me. If on the rare occasion I decide to bottle a red fairly quickly, e.g. if I’m testing a kit wine, then I will cold stabilize down to at least 5°C/41°F.
Hi Daniel,
I just pressed my pinot noir even though the cap had not completely fallen because the dried must on the sides of the large carboy smelled like vinegar. I applied VP41 MLB on Oct 22 and it states that it can take up to 50 to 60ppm SO2. Should I test for free SO2 and add back the amount needed according to the ph as long as its below 50ppm? The wine tastes good and I am happy with the color. I cold soaked for 14 days at 50F. I should rack off the gross lees in 24 hrs?
Thanks Mike
Hi Mike,
It shouldn’t happen that must dries up by remaining exposed to oxygen. You need to address that for next vintage.
You can measure free AND total SO2 to see where you are and so that you have the data in case you run into problems. For example, if you run into a stuck MLF and your total SO2 is well below the max, then you know it’s not an SO2 problem. BTW, the 50-60 ppm SO2 is TOTAL SO2, not free SO2.
I usually would not be recommending adding SO2 pre-MLF, but you seem to have some VA already. The small amount of SO2 that you can add and remain within the prescribed maximum won’t do much for VA. But do make sure your carboys are well topped up so that the aerobic Acetobacter don’t have a chance. If your TOTAL SO2 is below the max, I would still suggest you add some sulfite (without exceeding the 50-60 ppm TOTAL) in case some acetaldehyde developed. The SO2 would bind to acetaldehyde. This is only a precaution, but if the wine tastes absolutely fine, then you may be ok.
And yes, you should rack off the lees in 24 hours pre MLF.
Good luck.
Daniel
Confused by your statements above.
Your book, and all other reference materials, appear to indicate a max of 50ppm FSO2, not total SO2.
I measure and adjust to 35-40ppm FSO2, typically after MLF, and again before bottling.
I use accuvin’s FSO2 tests.
What tests do you prefer? I typically only make red or rose.
I have no idea how to measure Total SO2.
Truly appreciate your taking the time to be such a valuable resource.
Thanks
Seth
Our knowledge of science of MLF is very young; things are evolving quite rapidly. It was previously believed that free SO2 was the only form of SO2 lethal to lactic acid bacteria (LAB). When you purchased LAB, packets stated maximum free SO2. We now know that total SO2 is most important, particularly that some bound SO2 can reverse back into free SO2 in some cases and re-establish equilibrium, so you really need to look at total SO2. LAB packets now state max total SO2. You really need to look at the LAB you use and follow those specific manufacturers’ recommendations. Accuvin test kits are fine for this purpose, but I always recommend measuring SO2 levels regularly and accurately. I suggest you invest in some method or instrument that can measure SO2 more accurately; Vinmetrica’s SO2 analyzer seems most popular with amateurs and small wineries. Measuring total SO2 is easy. You first add some 1N NaOH to a sample to make it alkaline, wait some 10-20 minutes for the necessary reaction to occur (i.e. dissociating bound into free SO2), and then titrate like you do for free SO2.
Hope this helps.
Daniel
Hi Daniel.
Do Wines that are going thru MLF need to be stirred every day and also new white wines that were just racked off the less need to be stirred every day.? Thanks Mike
Hi Mike,
Stirring GENTLY once a day during MLF can help speed it up. I stress GENTLY because malolactic bacteria are sensitive to oxygen.
Is the question about whites also in the context of MLF? If the question about whites is if you should stir during sur-lie aging, then yes, stir daily. For more body and more mouthfeel, stir twice daily.
Cheers,
Daniel
Hi Daniel
I am using variable-capacity tanks. However I had to notice that wine overspill caused by temperature changes can be a problem. Using AC obviously might help: what temperature band (in degrees centigrade) is recommended to avoid any overspills?
Thank you for advice
Eduard
Hi Eduard,
The ideal cellar temperature is 13°C or 55°F. Your problem though, as you point out, is temperature fluctuations. You need a system that maintains a steady temperature.
Cheers,
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
How steady needs the temperature to be maintained? Is +/- 2 C (i.e. within a band of 4 C) sufficient or must it be even more constant?
Thanks,
Eduard
Eduard,
+/-2C is ok. You might still get a little overspill if your lid is tight on the wine. If the wine has been stabilized and most of its CO2 dissipated, you can replace the airlock with a solid bung.
Daniel
Morning Daniel-
Please remind me again, why do we live in the northeast? 🙂
Last year’s Rose was kept in a fridge at 55 degrees, and following AF, to dryness (-1.5 brix), I noticed continuing small bubbles that looked like MLF. I didn’t test it.
This year’s Rose is exhibiting the same behavior, at the same temp.
Obviously, I did nothing to inoculate it, and I keep really sanitary conditions (2 6.5 gal Fermonsters).
Do you think this is remnants of AF and just in need of degassing? Doesn’t have any discernible fizz. Or do you think this is somehow spontaneous MLF?
Thanks, and have a wonderful weekend.
Seth
Good morning Seth,
We live in the NE so we have something to talk about, and it gives you the ability to cold stabilize wines in a snap – pun intended.
Unless you test for MLF, you’ll never know for sure; there can be indigenous ML bacteria initiating a spontaneous MLF. But what you’re seeing is most likely degassing. This will happen at a slower rate — which may make it seem like an MLF — due to the lower temperature.
Cheers,
Daniel
I am betting we could find something else to talk about 🙂
Do you recommend manual degassing of any type with whites and roses?
Reds if no carbonation is detectable?
Thanks again.
Seth
I never degas as my wines degas naturally in the course of processing and aging.
Hello Daniel,
Hope your wine season started off great this fall.
I had a question regarding my wines that, having still to complete MLF, have not seen any additional SO2.
The surface of the wine in one or two dimijohns looks somewhat questionable…no faulty odor or taste however. It is either floating residue from the press or perhaps some flower?? (there is such little airspace so I don’t see how.
Regardless, it is nothing that would alarm me were I in a position to give the wine a moderate SO2 addition.
However, given that the MLF has completed, I am hesitant to do so. Any ideas? Should I add an amount of SO2 that falls under the threshold of the VP41?
Or wait it out? I already plan on sucking up the surface with a baster.
Thanks for your help.
Hi David,
I’m just starting as I have been busy throughout September and October.
What you are seeing on the surface is probably residue if your demijohn is well topped up. If what you are seeing is of a whitish color, then it might be some microbial infection. A picture here would be of great help. I would not add any SO2 yet until we take a closer look, especially if the MLF is not complete. In the meantime, do as you said, suck up the residues with a baster.
You can email me the image to Daniel@TechniquesInHomeWinemaking.com.
Cheers,
Daniel
Daniel,
I had been trying to get a Sauvignon Blanc to clarify for about a year now. It had been opaquely cloudy. Bentonite didn’t work. Isinglass didn’t work. Time didn’t work. I finally tried pectic enzyme, and it dropped clear within a couple weeks. My question is whether there will be any new instability after the pectic enzyme treatment. Do I need to fine or cold stabilize again?
Thanks,
Craig
Hi Craig,
You likely had not used enough bentonite, and most likely, that means you have not dealt 100% with proteins. You need to do bench trials to figure out the optimal amount of bentonite to use. A Sparkolloid treatment would help the bentonite-protein complexes precipitate (I guess that’s what the pectic enzyme did — it would not have been my first choice, only because it’s likely not a pectin issue).
Cold stabilization should be last, after the bentonite treatment. You should be ok after the pectic enzyme treatment, but again, you may not have dealt entirely with protein stability.
Daniel
Why would proteins precipitate after a pectic enzyme treatment where they did not with sizeable bentonite and isinglass doses? If it was a pectin problem, would there be any need to protein fine or cold stabilize again?
I don’t know having not had a chance to analyze your wine; I also don’t know how much bentonite you added (I don’t know what a “sizeable dose” is). At times the bentonite-protein complexes don’t precipitate, hence why I said a Sparkolloid treatment would have cleared the wine; that’s what the pectic enzymes likely did, although strange. I don’t think you had a pectin issue. Isinglass is a proteinaceous fining agent, so that definitely would not have worked for protein stability.
If there was a pectin problem, yes, you would still need to treat for protein stability, unless you did bench trials and concluded that there was no protein stability issue (highly unlikely). Pectic enzymes would not provide for protein stability.
And yes, you always have to cold stabilize, unless, again, you test for it and conclude that it is not needed (again, highly unlikely).
Hi Daniel,
Is there any problem fermenting a kit red wine in the same room as wine that is going through MLF?
Thanks Mike
Never had that question.
No, it’s not a problem.
Happy TDay Daniel to you and yours.
Thank you for all you do.
Seth
Seth,
Thank you. Our Thanksgiving is in October.
Happy Thanksgiving to you.
Always a pleasure helping.
Daniel
Sorry, Ugly American is presumptuous once more!
I never knew the 2d Monday rule, and now I do. Thank you, and sorry I was tardy in my wishes!
My 2018 Grenache/Syrah blend is coming along nicely, having now finished MLF. 8.5 gal.
I have not oaked it as I was unfamiliar, except for some oak chips in the middle of primary prior to press. It is about a 50/50 or 60/40 blend. Sorry for the lack of precision, as I saigneed a bunch of the Grenache for Rose.
It has some really nice tannins, bigger than my Cab Merlot, it seems.
Would you recommend an oak stave at this point? I recall being told that many Rhone blends are not oaked?
Thanks again.
Have a great weekend.
Seth
Hi Seth,
It depends on what YOU like, what YOU desire, regardless of known/famous blends/styles.
If you would like to add some oak character, sure, you can try oak staves. With staves, it’s mainly about adding oak aromas/flavors without adding much tannins, which is not what you want. You can do one stave, two, three, for a month, two, three, or more. The point is experiment as different staves from different manufacturers have different characteristics and taste, taste often, and take the staves out when you’ve hit YOUR sweet spot.
Good luck
Daniel
Hello Daniel,
It’s been a long time since I’ve posted anything here but I read many of the posts of other winemakers and still find this blog very informative.
I think I am experiencing something I never have before- stuck ferment. Here’s the information on the grapes:
Cabernet Sauvignon with 12% Petit Verdot brix 26, pH 3.8, TA 6.5 g/l, from Eldorado California. As part of the cold soak, I kept some pails of the must in the freezer and added them one per day. It gave an amazing colour even before any fermentation.
Inoculated with RC 212 yeast and later added malolactic bacteria at brix =20.
The fermentation went well at about 70 degrees and I pressed at sg 1.010. The fermentation continued to sg 1.000 and then seemed to stop bubbling. I moved the wine to a warmer room and the bubbling started again. It’s been bubbling at a slow rate, like one bubble through the fermentation lock every 30 seconds for 5 days now. The sg still hasn’t dropped appreciably below 1.000.
I did add some EC 1118 three days ago as I know this yeast has a high alcohol tolerance.
I looked through the list of causes of stuck ferment in your book and I can’t really pick one that fits. I remember that when I racked the wine 5 or 6 days ago to bring it to a warmer room, I got a lot of lees. I drained the lees into jugs and after the lees settled, the wine at the top of the lees fermented down to 0.995 and the smell was outstanding. The main batch though, is still stuck at sg 1.000.
Any ideas on what’s going on?
Much appreciated,
Vince
Hi Vince,
First off, if you have a true stuck fermentation at 1.000, it can be very difficult to restart, especially that you have fairly high alcohol by now (upwards of 14%) and just around the threshold for RC-212. It’s not impossible but extremely difficult, even with EC-1118.
You did not mention any nutrient addition, so I’m assuming you didn’t add any — you should have. One typically adds complex nutrients (something like Go-Ferm) to the yeast suspension and more nutrients (something like Fermaid) at one-third Brix depletion. I measure YAN (yeast assimilable nitrogen) in my must prior to fermentation so that I know how to handle the nutrients status.
Also, your fermentation temperature was too low for a red; you should let it rise to the low 80s at least.
Why did you press at 1.010 and not let it ferment to dryness? The problem is that you are removing the wine away from the nutrient-rich lees, nutrients that this high-Brix wine needed given that you did not add any.
If you are still seeing some bubbling, then it’s not entirely stuck and there is hope. Raise the temperature and let it finish fermenting. If it has energy, it will complete. I wouldn’t add nutrients at this point — it’s too late and may do more damage than good.
If it’s really stuck and you want to really revive it with EC-1118, then the way to do it is to prepare a yeast starter and then adding sugar and wine to it. You rehydrate the yeast with complex nutrients (e.g. Go-Ferm), then add a little sugar to get a good fermentation going, then add the same volume of wine to it, making sure that the yeast suspension is now close to the temperature of the wine. Once that ferments well, double the volume again by adding wine. When that is fermenting well, inoculate the rest of the batch. You’ll need to stir regularly until it reaches dryness.
Good luck.
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
I have a red wine kit from 2016 and wondering if the 118 yeast is ok? The instructions say to sprinkle the yeast on top of the must, and there are not nutrients for the yeast in the kit also. At present the must is 73F and the yeast has been added to the must now for 24 hrs. So far not much evidence that fermentation has started. What do you suggest. Thanks
Mike
Mike,
Kits are delivered with the ingredients as tested, as the manufacturer developed for trouble-free winemaking. If you deviate and run into problems, they can’t help you. But you can take calculated risks, like substituting EC-1118 with a more suitable yeast of your choice. The issue you have to be aware of is that, as you point out, there are no nutrients — the concentrate has already been adjusted. Your other yeast may have different nutritional requirements. You see?
I always recommend rehydrating the yeast. Sprinkling on the surface is not ideal but it’s an attempt to further reduce the risk of failure in the hands of a newbie.
Fermentation should kick in within 12-24 more hours. Be patient.
Good luck
Daniel
Thanks very much for the quick reply. I really appreciate your suggestions.
The wine is in a room with a temperature of 23 degrees C and the rate of bubbling hasn’t changedd, thus I’m assuming that there is still some fermentation going on. So basically I should wait until the bubbling stops and then evaluate the sg. If it is still at 1.000, I will use your suggestion of the yeast starter.
This reason I decided to press early was that I had a surgery scheduled around the time the wine was at 1.010 and I didn’t think I would be in shape to press. Otherwise I always ferment on the skins to dryness.
But here’s what might be a silly question. As I mentioned in my first post, the wine that was in jugs on the heavy lees had fermented to dryness, but more importantly that wine had an amazing aroma, much better than the main batch. So I was wondering if the heavy lees carried away those great aromas?
Thanks
Vince
Warm up the room just a tad to nudge the fermentation. Be patient; it will ferment to dryness, but do keep an eye on it as you don’t want it to go for too long on the gross lees.
Yes, the gross lees do release a lot of compounds that contribute to greater aromas, flavors and mouthfeel. They also contain a lot of nutrients that are beneficial to yeast for a good fermentation. You just have to be careful and manage all fermentation parameters and conditions so as not to get into an H2S situation.
I hope you are ok.
All the best,
Daniel
Hello Daniel. I did increase the temperature in the room to 24 C and the next day the rate of bubbles through the air lock increased to 3 per minute. But today again it reverted to 2 bubbles per minute. The fermentation seems to have slowed somewhat based on what I see around the rim. The sg is still at 1.000. Do you think the bubbling that is occurring is in fact fermentation or could it just be release of C02? I don’t think it’s malolactic as it seems a little too vigorous for that.
I was wondering if a racking would be a good idea or maybe stirring the lees.
Appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks
Vince
Hi Vince,
Bubbling can be very slow at the tail end of fermentation; it’s not residual CO2 release. You should let it take its course; no racking. Definitely, you should be stirring the lees. You should run a chromatography test to determine if there is any MLF activity — don’t guess or make assumptions.
Cheers,
Daniel
Hello Daniel,
Can you clarify if there is any difference between the 2008 paperback and 2012 hard cover (as listed on Amazon). They have the same number of pages but the hard cover on Amazon has a slightly different cover. I am going to to teach a course on the biology of fermentation and use your book as a reference. Students are cost sensitive so I imagine they will ask me what the difference between the books is and I have no idea since I still have the 2002 version.
Thanks,
Alex
Hi Alex,
2008 is the latest edition of my book, both soft and hardcover. At times, vendors, like Amazon, will publish dates of reprints. Reprints may contain very small changes from the main edition to correct, for example, spelling errors. There have been no changes in any reprints of my book except for the softcover version where we added the tagline about the foreword from Brad Ring on the cover. Contents are identical in all versions/reprints of the 2008 edition.
Wishing you success teaching the biology of fermentation course.
Cheers,
Daniel
Hello Daniel,
I was wondering if Lysozyme is recommended for wines where the MLF has completed, but there is some bacteria present in the wine causing a film on the surface.
Or is S02 alone a good deterrent.
I do not have the means to filter.
thank you!
Hi David,
The bacteria should not be causing any film. If it’s the “film” I am thinking of, it is normal and should disappear during racking and processing operations. Lysozyme is to inhibit the bacteria from metabolizing malic acid. If the MLF is complete, there is no point in adding lysozyme. All you need is an appropriate dose of SO2 based on the pH of the wine.
Cheers,
Daniel
Thank you so much,
I and many other home winemakers really appreciate your help, and the clarity with which you explain these concepts.
Thank you for the feedback.
Daniel-
Any thoughts/preferences relative to using Reduless in the future, should there be an H2S issue?
At your instructions, I have used copper sulfate previously and successfully.
Thanks as always.
Seth
Seth,
Research concludes that CuS (copper sulfide complexes from copper reacting with H2S) does not sediment, or at least not to the extent that it should for complete removal. A bentonite is therefore recommended after the CuSO4 treatment. The advantage of Reduless is that it contains bentonite, so it works very well. I have never had to use it but I heard great reviews about Reduless. I had used CuSO4 in the past without a bentonite treatment, but I let the wine age, then racked and then filtered, and never had issues.
Daniel
Daniel-
2018 C/M and 2018 G/S are now done with MLF. There is a decent amount of fine lees at the base of the fermonsters. Nose is good.
Recommendations:
1) Rack now; or
2) Sur Lie with stirring for ______? then rack in ____________?
3) Sur Lie, no stirring, then rack in ______________?
Thanks
Seth
Hi Seth,
I’m assuming that the “decent amount of fine lees” 1) do not include gross lees, i.e. you had racked already, and 2) that it is not excessive. If the latter, rack. Be sure to add SO2 now that the MLF is done.
For a fuller-bodied style, you can stir the lees every other day or once/twice a week. Keep doing it until you reach your desired “sweet spot” making sure you taste every time you come to stir the lees — take a sample before stirring. It can take a couple of weeks, a couple of months, maybe more. It all depends on the wine, the amount of lees you have, and what style you want. When done, then you rack and you continue the aging process.
Good luck.
Daniel
Thank you sir, as always.
Hope you are having a wonderful Holiday Season.
Seth
Thank you Seth. Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season.
Cheers,
Daniel
Is it a fair statement that sur lie and battonage does nothing EXCEPT to add mouthfeel?
Had hit it with KMBS in november as soon as ML was done. Fine lees only, moderate.
Thanks again.
Seth
Ah! Sur-lie does wonders, not just add a creamier mouthfeel and more body: it adds further aroma and flavor complexity, AND — and this is a big AND — it increases the antioxidation capacity.
Happy new year Daniel,
I have 5 gallons of Pinot Blanc wine from last year with a ph of 3.3, cold stabilized, and finned. I would like to make some dry champagne and would like to know how much sugar to add to 5 gallons of this wine using EC111 yeast ? I have bottles and crown caps on hand also and plan on aging it at 55F. How many months until its ready to drink?
Thanks for your help as I have never tried making champagne before.
Mike
And a Happy New Year to you too Mike.
You add 20-25 g/L of sugar. This will raise alcohol by 1.2-1.5%. Hopefully your Pinot is not already high in alcohol. 25 g/L is 475 g in 5 gallons.
I assume you know how to go about preparing it all, including the yeast starter. It will take a couple of months or more to ferment completely. Then you can let age on the lees for a few months or a year or more before you disgorge and start drinking.
I describe the procedure in detail in my book.
Good luck.
Daniel
Thanks Daniel for your reply,
I did find some dialysis tubing in Calif. and will try this method also as described in your book. I am confused about how long I should wait before disgorging and removing the tubing. Is it one year to remove the tubing and then another year to age before you can open and drink the champagne ?
Thanks again, Mike
The tubing kind of impedes the effects of autolysis, so that’s why I’m saying wait a year before opening bottles and retrieving the tubing. Then add the dosage and all and start drinking if you want, but it will improve with a few months or a year of cellaring.
Hi Daniel,
My point blanc wine was aged with some oak; I intend to use it to make champagne; will the oak give off a undesirable flavor in the champagne?
Thanks Mike
Hi Mike,
It should not give off undesirable flavors though the oak may be more present, so to speak, as the CO2 may increase the perception of oak. This should be interesting.
Let us know how it turns out.
Cheers,
Daniel
Thanks Daniel for your comments in regards to making champagne. I intend to use EC118 yeast plus grow ferm and would like to know if fermaid K should also be added to the wine before bottling into champagne bottles with crown caps..
Thanks Mike
Hi Mike,
Go-Ferm is all you need.
Good luck.
Daniel
good afternoon Daniel,
I have a few packages of Super-Kleer K.C. Its a 2 stage finning agent for wine consisting of 2 packages, one of which is kieselsol and the other package is Chitosn. I have used them before and they clear up wine, however, will they also heat stabilize the wine like bentonite does?
Thanks Mike
Hi Mike,
Yes, kieselsol can be used to treat proteins in wines. As with bentonite, you really need to perform bench trials to determine how much kieselsol to add to achieve heat stability. But since there is no risk of over-fining with kieselsol, you can go with the max dose recommended (50 mL/hL).
Cheers,
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
My wine has been racked off the fine lees and is in a cold room at 55F. Do I have to warm up the wine to 65F to add the finning agent Kieselsol?
Thanks for your help as always, Mike
Hi Mike,
No need to warm up. 55F is good.
Daniel
Hi DAniel,
I have added sugar and yeast plus grow ferm to my white wine to make champagne. After 72 hrs at 70F it reads 0.7 s.g. on my hydrometer. The yeast seems to be working. Is this the correct reading to begin bottling in order to make champagne?
Thanks, Mike
Hi Mike,
You are not following the procedure in my book, are you?
You have pitched the yeast directly into the white, to which you had added the sugar. So you didn’t prepare a yeast starter culture. In my method, you bottle the wine right away once you inoculate with the yeast starter.
If the yeast is working, you should bottle right away.
Daniel
Daniel-
My 2018 Cab Merlot blend is sur lie aging, with battonage averaging once a week, sometimes twice, sometimes once in 11 days if out of town.
4 7.5 gal fermonsters.
MLF was done end of October, beginning of November.
Because of the suspended material, it’s hard to tell when is enough.
Recommendations?
When is too long?
Thanks as always.
Seth
Seth,
Go by taste and mouthfeel. When you have the taste profile you desire, you can stop. Also check your free SO2 if you are able to measure it; you don’t want free SO2 to fall to a dangerously low level.
Cheers,
Daniel
Daniel
Morning, trying to get smarter on gross lee’s management. Our hope is to recover more wine. We fermented 1500 Lbs. of CS this year, yield post pressing (basket press) was just over 100 gallons. We racked off the gross lees about a day and a half later and had a yield of 82 gallons. So we lost about 20% on the first racking. This is pretty typical for us. We used 100 ml of Scottzyme Color Pro for an enzyme and fermented in Brutes for just under 3 weeks to dry, so the skins were pretty empty at the time of pressing.
Are there any other techniques or suggestions on how to recover some of the wine trapped in the gross lees? Can gelatin be used on the concentrated gross lees after racking off to help compact them? A 20% lost seems excessive, assume there must be something done in commercial wineries since this would be a significant amount on a large scale. We try and strain it coming off the press with a fine sieve, but it plugs quiet quickly. Our press days take 8 hours so must admit some does get by the strainer.
At first we were considering switching to a bladder press, but seems this will only effect the dryness of our pomice and less seed cracking not the amount of gross lees. They are pretty pricey especially in SS, amount of extra wine from dryer pomice results in a long payback period.
Thanks
Joe
Joe,
If you have access to a fridge, you can transfer the lees (and “trapped” wine) to a container, making sure to top up as you do always, and place in the fridge. After a few days you will see the solid phase at the bottom and the liquid phase sitting at the top. Then use a pump to retrieve the wine and transfer to another container. Working with a glass carboy/container in the fridge will allow you to see the two phases ad make the pump transfer easy. This is the process I use.
You’ll be pulling your hair out if you try to strain through a fine sieve. You could try a bag housing and bag filter; that may work although I have never tried it myself.
Professionals use a centrifuge or a lees filter — read $$$$.
A have a bladder press and I love it. It’s so much easier and faster to operate compared to a basket press. There is no issue of seed cracking with either.
Cheers,
Daniel